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NimbySue
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May 03, 2016 at 16:32
(United Kingdom)
Post 15822

Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post

The vet did an XRay of front right and rear right leg,prior to this she said there seemed no problem with his Front paw or leg but Andrew tried to bite when she checked his rear leg,anyway the result is he has Cruciate ligament Disease,so he has a joint supplement with Green lipped mussel to take 2 times a day and also pain killers called Carprox,not very long walks and to try keep calm!...the vet was not there when I picked him up so the receptionist relayed all this to me...I am trying to read up on all this via the net and what to do for the best...the vets want to see Andrew again in 2 weeks to see if he is any better.They say this disease  could be an inherited one from his breeding or an old untreated injury in the past causing it....I will follow the instructions from the vets but do wonder that long term this will not solve anything really and by him being on painkillers for any length of time is only masking the problem as well as Andrew maybe thinking ...oh well I feel fine and lets go chase and zoom like mad again!...Like he often does do!...I suspect in the past he might have just  done something mad and wrenched his cruciate  knowing what a hooligan he can be...trouble is unlike having a dog from a puppy where you know the history and what they have done etc  with Rescue   in the past is a question mark..Bless him,...he looked so groggy and sad when I fetched him home but a little brighter now..we will do our best for him and enquire also re other options re surgery etc...Would appreciate your feedback or comments on this also....Big Hugs Annie and Gang xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 


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Iver and Sailor
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May 03, 2016 at 16:50
• David
(Washington)

Post 6402

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I'm so sorry to hear that about Andrew, Annie.
Did the vet have something to say about the long term prognosis
I know dogs always hide their pain and try and go on as usual
I hope Andrew isn't on pain killers very long.
Prayers and good thoughts for Andrew

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NimbySue
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May 03, 2016 at 17:25
(United Kingdom)
Post 15823

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Not really David,I did not ask her as the vet not there but I will follow the next 2 weeks as they have said and then when I take him back for check up will ask about long term options and what they think,Eric tore his cruciate ligament when he was 15 but seemed to get by fine and an operation was not good at that age  plus it did not seem to bother him that much but I feel with Andrew having it as a Disease as they call this sort he has ,then as he is young and a lot of bounding years to go ..I need to know what can be done for his health and well being long term like you say....will keep you informed here as he goes on each day,Thanks for asking Hugs Annie and Gang xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Deb, Emmie, and Angel Kelsie
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May 03, 2016 at 17:01
• Deborah
(Pennsylvania)

Post 8373

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the disease so I'm of no help...I'm sure there are members here who do know something about it and hopefully, they can fill you in. We are keeping Andrew in our thoughts and prayers. I know how tough it is keeping little white dogs calm so am adding you to the prayers also! Keep us informed about his condition and any alternative treatments you come across.
Love, Deb, Emmie, and Angel Kelsie

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Charleen And Matthew
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May 03, 2016 at 17:23
• Charleen
(South Dakota)

Post 12513

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

How old is Andrew?  I hope you don't let them talk you into unnecessary surgery. So many people rush into surgery for every little thing. Is Andrew in pain?  Give his injury time to heal if it's a recent one. Matthew hurt his knee a couple weeks ago and screamed when the Vet put light pressure on it. I kept him quite the best I could and took him off his pain meds as soon as I could.  He's perfectly fine now and hopefully stays that way.  Don't rush into anything.  Everything does NOT need surgery.  If your Vet insists surgery is needed get a second or even a third opinion.  Yeah with a rescue you don't know much (or anything) about the dog but still rescuing is the most rewarding thing you could ever do.  We hope he will be ok.

 


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NimbySue
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May 03, 2016 at 17:46
(United Kingdom)
Post 15825

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Andrew is between 4 and 6 years  the Rescue centre stated and Yes when he limps it must hurt him,We do not have anything done to our dogs unless  it is for their benefit and of course look into all options.

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NimbySue
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May 03, 2016 at 17:40
(United Kingdom)
Post 15824

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Yes I agree rescuing is very rewarding not only for the new owners but moreso for the dog to have a new , happy forever life...The pound were going to put Andrew to sleep on the day that the Rescue centre had a place there for him...and then we rescued him from them,They also take in westies from Backyard farm breeders from the Grim outbacks in Wales..The rescue centre says they have to keep in with the grim breeders in order for them to give up the seties after they have finished breeding from them,if they get reported then the Rescue centre can no longer have the breeding bitches and the millers will use a shoval or the dog will end up in the slurry!..sad fact of what the B........do for money!...if they get reported from anyone the welfare people move in and never look at the static vans 5 fields away with crates inside them....sad fact also its a supply and demand case.......If only someone could rescue them all and then dig a huge pit for the so called humans that have caused the poor dogs misery...No more puppy mills!!...we can only Pray. Annie xxx

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Diana
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May 03, 2016 at 17:51
(Australia)
Post 4230

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Kelsi had cruciate surgery @ the age of 11 and she bounced back really well, we tried resting her but it didn't work. She was hard to keep calm. Our Border Collie had 2 knees done (separate times) and she recovered well from surgery. My brothers Rotti also had the surgery and she was so much better afterwards.

Fingers crossed Andrew feels better after some rest.

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NimbySue
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May 03, 2016 at 18:00
(United Kingdom)
Post 15826

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Thank you Diana,My sisters Border Collie had her cruciate surgery done also many years ago and was fine afterwards and so pleased Kelsi had done well after hers.Hugs Annie and Gang xxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Diana
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May 04, 2016 at 00:24
(Australia)
Post 4231

Annie Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I was a little worried given she was 11 but we've been using the same vet since they were little pups and he felt sure she would be okay and honestly in the end she was no good the way she was and given her love of walking. climbing, jumping and exploring etc it was the best thing for her. She really bounced back well, you wouldn't have known she had surgery. 

Yes Buffy had both legs done, she was a fence jumper. Jess their second border collier had 1 done and she was 10 or so. 

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Sir William
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May 03, 2016 at 19:26
• Allen
(New Jersey)

Post 1542

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

We hope they can figure something out for the little guy!!!!!

Sending healing prayers your way!!!!!

Love Sir William ^--^

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Caesar and Murphy Latham
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May 03, 2016 at 21:04
• Louise
(Illinois)

Post 5117

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Oh no I am so sorry to hear Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease.  Us Westies are tough and I know he will feel better soon.  My Mummy said she will keep the prayers going that sweet Andrew will feel better soon.  Love Caesar and Angel Murphy

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Sherrie
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May 04, 2016 at 08:11
• Sherrie
(Florida)

Post 410

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

So sorry to hear about Andrew...the toughest thing is keeping a terrier from bouncing around.  Although I'm not familiar with Cruciate ligament disease, my first Westie, Maggie Mae, tore her ACL when she was 10 or so.  We opted not to have surgery due to her other health issues, and it did end up healing well on its own.  Hugs and best wishes to Andrew that he heals.

Sherrie and Crew


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Patti and Molly
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May 04, 2016 at 09:08
(New York)
Post 470

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I'm so sorry for Andrew.

My sweet old fat lab tore his ACL when he was about 10. He wasn't very active at that point so it wasn't hard giving him time to heal. He healed up enough to get around but was never quite the same again. We always had to be careful of that leg/knee for the rest of his life.

He's done this since you got him, right? Poor guy.

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Casey
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May 04, 2016 at 12:02
• Theo
(Canada)

Post 3051

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I hope this might help Andrew, I have copied it from the Facebook site and the link is below for your vet.  I'll also put it in the Pet Care Forum

WESTIES HEALTH -- FROM EARS TO TAIL.
ACL: TREATMENT: 
PRP A PROMISING ALTERNATIVE TO SURGERY
KATIE WYATT·TUESDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2015

All Dogs Are Predisposed To ACL Injuries
The ACL (Anterior Crucial Ligament) tear or rupture is a relatively common canine injury, affecting almost 1 million dogs a year in the USA.

Currently, national costs to treat this injury in dogs are over $1.5 billion dollars a year, and the surgical standard of care treatment per dog costs on average between $3000-3500. Additionally, dogs receiving surgical intervention can expect a substantial rehabilitation time of up to 3 months for successful surgeries. Approximately 5% of surgical interventions are unsuccessful, a relatively low number unless your dog is a member of that statistic.

Today the standard of care typically involves one of two surgeries, TPLO or LFS, however a new much less expensive and non-invasive treatment option Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) is being tested with good results.


TO VIEW THE VIDEO'S ASSOCIATED WITH THIS ARTICLE please use this link:
http://hubpages.com/animals/Torn-ACL-Treatment-For-Dogs-PRP-A-Promising-Alternative-to-Surgery
ACL Tears And Ruptures – Why Is It A Common Injury in Dogs
The physical dynamics of the dog’s hind leg, predispose him to ACL tears and ruptures. Because the dog stands on his toes, unlike humans who stand flat footed, there is constant pressure to thrust the tibia (the main lower leg bone) forward and out from under the femur (the main upper leg or thigh bone).

Dogs can experience a tear or rupture as a result of intense physical activity or even just by walking to the mail box.

The femur and tibia are held in place by two ligaments, the cranial or anterior crucial ligament (ACL) and the caudal or posterior crucial ligament. These two ligaments join the femur to the tibia by crossing each other inside the knee joint from front to back. The ACL prevents the tibia from slipping out of position.

When the ACL tears partially or ruptures completely (a torn or ruptured cruciate ligament) it causes instability in the joint. Without the restraint of the ACL, the tibia is now freer to move forward of the femur, potentially causing damage to the medial and lateral meniscus (the protective pads between the two bones).

Additionally, the instability causes joint inflammation, pain and ultimately arthritic changes to both the tibia and femur, resulting in long term damage when left untreated.
 
Diagnosing ACL Tears and Ruptures
Generally, dogs with ACL tears or ruptures present by not putting weight on the affected leg when standing. As they move or increase the speed of their gait, they may appear normal, however when returned to a standing position, they will remove weight from the affected leg.

This condition may wax and wane. Dogs may have worse days than others and may “warm” out of the condition as they exercise. However, the knee joint remains swollen and abnormal wear between the femur and tibia and on the meniscal pads begins to develop loss of range of motion as a result of arthritic changes. Bone spurs may begin to develop as well.

ACL tears are diagnosed by a combination of physical exam and x-rays. X-rays will not show the actual ligament however, they can show secondary symptoms of a torn ligament. These include excess fluid in the knee both in front of and behind the knee joint. Granulation of the bone (remodeling) and osteophytes (bone spurs) can be seen as well, and may begin to develop within 3-4 weeks of the injury.

The physical exam involves a procedure known as the “drawer test.” In this exam the dog’s femur is immobilized, while the examiner attempts to move the tibia out in front of the femur. If it moves out forward of the femur like a drawer opening, then a torn ACL is indicated.

Dogs may be able to stabilize their knees by tensing their other muscles against the action. An especially nervous dog may need to be slightly anesthetized to determine the true range of motion in the drawer test.

In a second physical test, the femur is held in place while the ankle is flexed. If the tibia moves forward abnormally, a ruptured ligament is suspected.

Additionally, examination of the knee joints of the healthy leg and affected leg is performed to determine the degree of swelling. Swelling on the inside of the knee, called a “medial buttress,” will indicate the development of arthritis in dogs with old ACL injuries.

Treatment of ACL Tears and Ruptures
In instances where the ACL is completely torn, surgery is the only option to stabilize the joint. In cases where the ACL is partially torn, it is inevitable that the ACL will fully rupture without some type of intervention, as the remaining weaker ligament must fully restrain the tibia.

The knee joint has a relatively low blood supply, and the torn pieces of the ligament are resorbed by the body. To generate new tissue either a growth factor must be introduced or replacement ligament must be surgically introduced.
Nonsurgical Care
Until recently, non surgical treatment has been largely holistic in its nature. Herbs and supplements such as turmeric, glucosamine, Omega 3’s and Glycoflex are administered to reduce inflammation and further damage to the joint. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories, NSAIDs, may be given as well.

Adequan, frequently used for horses, may be injected as it can help prevent cartilage in the dog’s joint from wearing away. Another drug frequently used, Polyglycan, a less expensive substitute for Adequan, has been shown in studies to not be as effective as Adequan in reducing swelling in horses. Additionally, it has side effects which may include sterility with prolonged use. Owners can be taught to administer Adequan themselves at home. Injections are given twice a week until symptoms improve, and then once a week for maintenance.

Rest and limited exercise while avoiding weight gain are also critical in the management of joint disease and damage.

Promising New Nonsurgical Treatment: Platelet Rich Plasma Therapy
Platelet rich plasma therapy has been used with success to treat arthritis in joints, muscle, tendon and ligament damage. In this process the blood is drawn from the patient and then centrifuged to concentrate the platelets as well as remove the majority of white and red blood cells. Then the plasma is injected back into the patient at the site of the injury. Its injection may be peppered along the site of the injury to maximize its beneficial effects.

The rationale behind this treatment is twofold. Inflammation must be removed from the site for the healing process to begin, and growth factors must be introduced to aid in the healing process and to encourage new tissue growth. Platelet rich plasma, or PRP, accomplishes both of these tasks.

When tissue is initially injured the inflammation that is triggered stops the spread of infection and clears away damaged tissue. But healing of the tissues will not begin until the inflammation process is turned off. Platelets introduced to the site of the injury attract white blood cells to the injured area that will clear away the remains of the dead and injured cells.

Additionally, the blood platelets release growth factors that are directly responsible for tissue regeneration. Known as cytokins, they include a series of growth factors including epithelial growth factor, transforming growth factor, insulin growth factor, and other important growth factors. Because it comes from the patient, there is no risk of rejection. It is for these two reasons PRP treatment is being promoted and tested for ligament, muscle, tendon, joint and bone injuries, which are normally slow to heal.

PRP can be used as a treatment of the injury or to aid in healing following surgical intervention. Additionally, PRP is substantially less expensive than surgery. The typical TPLO surgery ranges from $3000-3500, while PRP is approximately $500 per treatment with a recovery time of about six weeks of leash walking. Dogs may need to be retreated with PRP in order to continue the growth of new ligament tissue; the long term benefits of PRP therapy have not yet been fully determined.

Stem Cells Versus PRP Therapy
Stem cells have also been researched in conjunction with new tissue generation. Just as in PRP therapy, stem cells bring growth factors to the site of the injury. However, within 24 hours of injection as many as 95% of the stem cells have already died. Given that stem cell treatments cost on average $3000 per treatment, PRP seems the better alternative for experimental nonsurgical treatment for canines.

At this point in time, neither PRP nor stem cell treatment will guarantee that your dog will never require surgery; long term case studies will be required to understand the benefits of PRP and how long they can be expected to last. However, a study on Standardbred race horses with severe ligament injuries did show that PRP treatment allowed them to return to racing. With a shorter recovery period and a much lower cost compared with surgery, PRP is worth exploring with your orthopedic veterinarian.

Suggestions for Further Reading
Glucosamine for Dogs with Joint Pain | The 5 Best Supplements Reviewed
These 5 glucosamine supplements provided the fastest and most noticeable relief for dogs with joint pain and arthritis. These highly available supplements help repair and prevent further joint damage
http://hubpages.com/animals/Glucosamine-for-Dogs-The-5-Best-Supplements-Reviewed




https://www.facebook.com/notes/westies-health-from-ears-to-tail/acl-treatment-prp-a-promising-altern

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NimbySue
Member PageMember Page
May 04, 2016 at 17:22
(United Kingdom)
Post 15827

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Tghank you for all this information Theo,its great help to understand all the workings of our dogs and when things go wrong what happens and the effects it creates on them,Andrew has been quiet today and a little sad so getting lots of TLC,,,along with Nimby of course not to let her feel left out,Hope all is well with you and any new four footers yet!!?....Hugs and kisses from us all Annie and Gang xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Casey
Member PageMember Page
May 04, 2016 at 22:04
• Theo
(Canada)

Post 3053

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

I hope the info is helpful Annie, would be nice to avoid surgery if possible. 

No new furkids yet, but will certainly make a big announcement when I do get one.

I'm okay, just feeling very tired lately, probably just the long winter effects. Hope to get up to the cabin in the next couple weeks and that should wake me up pretty good LOL Give the pups and Stiggs some loving for me

hugs to you and Peter, Theo xoxo

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Diana
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May 05, 2016 at 03:35
(Australia)
Post 4234

Theo Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Will look forward to that announcement Theo. Any time soon?  

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Casey
Member PageMember Page
May 05, 2016 at 11:43
• Theo
(Canada)

Post 3057

Re: Theo Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Not soon, but certainly not soon enough LOL   Of course that depends on when the right Westie for me is up for adoption, long waiting lists here.

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Diana
Member PageMember Page
May 05, 2016 at 12:24
(Australia)
Post 4236

Re: Theo Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

You never know what's around the corner, might not be as long a wait as you think. Fingers crossed. 

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Elliot
Email
Member PageMember Page
May 05, 2016 at 08:02
• Kay
(Oregon)

Post 1836

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Anne,  I adopted a 2nd Bichon (Coco) 1 1/2 yrs ago that is now 10 yrs old. His owner had gotten him when he was 3 months old and when her Altzheimers became bad enough she was forgetting to feed/care for him her family turned him over to rescue and he came with all his medical records from the time she got him - not very often does that happen!  When he was 8 yrs old he had surgery on his right knee - the left knee was bad too but not bad enough for surgery.  I've had him on Cosequin DS with MSM and he is doing good.  A little stiff when he first gets up and limps the first couple steps but so do I at this age!  lol I've had his knees check out by my Vet and he said they are both are ok. So one knee had surgery and the other one didn't and he enjoys life, runs and plays like any 10 yr old pup would.

Andrew was overweight when you first got him wasn't he?  Getting the excess weight off will help as much as any anti inflammatory drug and Glucosamine supplement. Slowing him down long enough for the meds to start the healing process will be hard for a Westie AND you but may be all that is needed to where he will not need the pain meds or surgery.   My other Bichon Bullett (12ish yrs old - another rescue) has bad arthritis to where the Vet wanted to put him on daily NSAID and after about 6 months of taking the Cosequin he is so much better to where I don't have to give him the NSAID very often.  Again, Andrew may just need time to heal & for the supplements to start working. Sorry he is hurting & hope he is feeling better soon.

Forever Elliot's Kay 

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NimbySue
Member PageMember Page
May 05, 2016 at 16:59
(United Kingdom)
Post 15831

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Thank you Kay,Thats interesting to know...Hope all well with you and Thank you again for replying..Hugs and kisses Annie and Gang xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Iver and Sailor
Member PageMember Page
May 05, 2016 at 11:47
• David
(Washington)

Post 6404

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Oh Theo I'm so happy to hear another Westie is in your future
I may be getting a second Westie this summer

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Diana
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May 06, 2016 at 14:15
(Australia)
Post 4237

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

Good luck, hope it all works out for you David. 



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Casey
Member PageMember Page
May 06, 2016 at 11:33
• Theo
(Canada)

Post 3058

Re: Andrew has Cruciate ligament Disease Vote for this post Reply to this Message Reply with a quote

That would be great for Sailor and for you David, you'll keep us updated of course ;)

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